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LogosApologia
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« on: July 06, 2010, 08:28:54 PM »

Ken Klein has a new DVD out called  Angel Wars  that teaches that human beings are really the creator angels who sinned. We are the angels who by our own righteous choice decided to incarnate into human bodies to work off our Angelic transgressions. This is an old heresy that Origen used to promote, and more recently by Joseph Smith. I have written on this extensively of late at my website http://www.logosapologia.org  Please check out the last two posts for details.
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kaijuu
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 06:46:19 PM »

its been a long tradition trying to catch peolpe for their new religion by making people believe in such inventions like this, things regarding angels, men being like angels, turning into gods, even this sounds much like the average new age religion but trying to mix it with a particular interpretation of the bible, I guess the one behind this is a self proclaimed illuminated of some kind just like the joseph sith you mentioned, who was the illuminated who founded the mormomons ...
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LogosApologia
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 11:00:05 AM »

I have corresponded with an alleged scholar on Mr. Klein's staff. He attempted to rationalize Romans 5 "sin entered through one man"  and by his exegesis it sounds like they are starting some sort of neo-mormon, eastern mysticism, gnostic "Christian" cult. If you are interested I will be happy to forward you the emails. I sent it over to Tom Bionic at Future Quake and he thought he might be on drugs... it's that wacky.

This is their explanation as to how Paul was really teaching in Romans 5 that we are fallen angels:

Quote
From one of our PhD staff members who is a major contributor to our research and developing department (Romans).


Ah…THE BOOK OF ROMANS FOREVER: Romans 5:12…”Wherefore”, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. (KJV). NOW COMES THE BOOK OF ROMANS MANIFEST ALIVE BY THE INTERPRETATION OF A MANIFESTER:

“Wherefore”KJV (”Therefore”,NIV same value), a term when contextually used after a statement which is to be followed by a related statement which is a causation connected to the statement to follow,or as it may be said: a word used meaning that the statement of point that preceded the statement to follow is the causation for the event of the statement which follows the word “Wherefore”. The question then,

what is the statement that is a causation for Romans 5:12? The following is the collective statement:

1. God commended His Love toward the spirits who now are living in human bodies while they were still sinners and still Ophannim angels [Ezekiel 10-13, “wheels” in Hebrews “Ophannim”, (for all had sinned [past tense] and come short of the glory of God) Romans 5:13 MIV.
We humans existed as Ophannim Morning Star Angels before this Earth was formed: Job 38:4-7 and Job 38:21 NIV, Revelation 12:3-7 KJV or NIV, Romans 8:19-23, Romans 8:29-30 KJV, Ephesians 1:3-5 KJV. God commended His Love through Yahvael the Christ Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the cosmos (world, stars of the heavens), Revelation 13:8 KJV, see Cosmos for world in Strong’s Greek Concordance #2886 from #2889.

2. Those angels who sinned at the foundations of the Cosmos are to be justified and saved from wrath, Romans 5:9 MIV. Compare, Romans 8:29-30 KJV.

3.Those same mortals (previously Angels) due to their sin become enemies to Yahvael (Christ) but are to be reconciled by the offering of the Son. (Romans 5:10 MIV)

4. Joy is to be given to the overcomer angels (now Mortals) who had become enemies to Yahvael the Christ Lamb. Romans 5:11 MIV. Compare, Isaiah 63:9-10, and Isaiah 63:16 KJV
So then, the term “Wherefore”, used in Romans 5:12, purposes that all of 1-4 statements above preceding the “wherefore” scripture are the causation for the “wherefore” verse in Romans 5:12. With that being said it is evident that “sin” entered into the world not as a result of anything that happened on Earth but rather because of something that was a cause exceptional to this Earth. This fact is further accentuated in 1 John 3:8 KJV: He that committed sin (past tense) is of the devil (Lucifer, satan, the Dragon, the Serpent); for the devil sinneth from the “BEGINNING” from Strong’s Greek Concordance, “beginning”= #746 “First Estate”also see #7 5 6 = precedence. Compare: Jude 6, “First Estate” forsaken by the angels (under satan the devil’s influence). For this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil.

When one considers the statement in Romans 5:12: By one man sin entered the world. It must be determined as to the meaning of “man”. When used in the english language. Man can represent both genders of male or female, such as mankind. This is a language fact and if that was not true the women would be left out of most benefits of the Word of God in the Bible. When someone says: well it is obvious this scripture is talking about “Adam”. However, the word “adam” means “man”. And the word “adam” personified to mean a particular person means at least three persons: ADAM the son of God, Luke 3:38 KJV, Eve, - ADAM Genesis 5:2 KJV, for Eve’s name was also ADAM…And the other ADAM was Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV. This is especially interesting since in…1 Timothy 2:14 this scripture says that Adam was not deceived and did not commit transgression.

So then why did Adam, the son of God, choose to take on himself the sins of the failed messenger angels, the Ophannim Wheels, who existed before the foundation of the Earth, (Job 38:1-7,21KJV), and as well the transgression of Eve Adam his wife? First he took on the sins of the fallen angels to manifest in the flesh the extent of sin they committed and to manifest it as such. See Romans 7:13 KJV, because Adam Loved Eve and had become one flesh with her, making him Eve’s kinsman redeemer. The Bible repeats the question…Who are the mortals (what is man) that You God are so mindful of them?

Romans 5:12 continues: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world AND DEATH BY SIN. The history of ancient bones prove that on Earth death was a common state before Adam and Eve were even created and therefore their actions had nothing to do with the cause of death as exceptional to the expectation of death for many reasons. If Adam and Eve already had eternal life but lost it due to sin, that flies crooked in the face of “The Tree of Life” which if eaten would allow continous life, but which Adam and Eve never partook of.

And so death passed upon all mortals, because all mortals as failed angels had sinned (have/had past tense) before coming to Earth. MIV THE EMPIRE OF ROME WAS A THOUSAND YEARS, THE BOOK OF ROMANS FOREVER…..

Stop preaching to God about what Am is to do for you, seek that space between transmitting and receiving which is meditation. Go there and wait, for there is coming a sound as of a great Inner Rain. When this Inner Rain is flowing you will be able to change every mental base element into spiritual gold. This is a Word from God that one day all things will become possible for you. When this happens a Holy Ghost telescope will be mounted in your brain so you can see beyond the beyond. Come touch this compass for it is a compass of a “to be” sweeping spiritual Manifest movement. For then shall God sweeten the juices of your spirit and flower the exercises of your altitude.

Regards,

Staff

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ServantStrike
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 11:14:39 AM »

I have corresponded with an alleged scholar on Mr. Klein's staff. He attempted to rationalize Romans 5 "sin entered through one man"  and by his exegesis it sounds like they are starting some sort of neo-mormon, eastern mysticism, gnostic "Christian" cult. If you are interested I will be happy to forward you the emails. I sent it over to Tom Bionic at Future Quake and he thought he might be on drugs... it's that wacky.

This is their explanation as to how Paul was really teaching in Romans 5 that we are fallen angels:

Quote
From one of our PhD staff members who is a major contributor to our research and developing department (Romans).


Ah…THE BOOK OF ROMANS FOREVER: Romans 5:12…”Wherefore”, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. (KJV). NOW COMES THE BOOK OF ROMANS MANIFEST ALIVE BY THE INTERPRETATION OF A MANIFESTER:

“Wherefore”KJV (”Therefore”,NIV same value), a term when contextually used after a statement which is to be followed by a related statement which is a causation connected to the statement to follow,or as it may be said: a word used meaning that the statement of point that preceded the statement to follow is the causation for the event of the statement which follows the word “Wherefore”. The question then,

what is the statement that is a causation for Romans 5:12? The following is the collective statement:

1. God commended His Love toward the spirits who now are living in human bodies while they were still sinners and still Ophannim angels [Ezekiel 10-13, “wheels” in Hebrews “Ophannim”, (for all had sinned [past tense] and come short of the glory of God) Romans 5:13 MIV.
We humans existed as Ophannim Morning Star Angels before this Earth was formed: Job 38:4-7 and Job 38:21 NIV, Revelation 12:3-7 KJV or NIV, Romans 8:19-23, Romans 8:29-30 KJV, Ephesians 1:3-5 KJV. God commended His Love through Yahvael the Christ Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the cosmos (world, stars of the heavens), Revelation 13:8 KJV, see Cosmos for world in Strong’s Greek Concordance #2886 from #2889.

2. Those angels who sinned at the foundations of the Cosmos are to be justified and saved from wrath, Romans 5:9 MIV. Compare, Romans 8:29-30 KJV.

3.Those same mortals (previously Angels) due to their sin become enemies to Yahvael (Christ) but are to be reconciled by the offering of the Son. (Romans 5:10 MIV)

4. Joy is to be given to the overcomer angels (now Mortals) who had become enemies to Yahvael the Christ Lamb. Romans 5:11 MIV. Compare, Isaiah 63:9-10, and Isaiah 63:16 KJV
So then, the term “Wherefore”, used in Romans 5:12, purposes that all of 1-4 statements above preceding the “wherefore” scripture are the causation for the “wherefore” verse in Romans 5:12. With that being said it is evident that “sin” entered into the world not as a result of anything that happened on Earth but rather because of something that was a cause exceptional to this Earth. This fact is further accentuated in 1 John 3:8 KJV: He that committed sin (past tense) is of the devil (Lucifer, satan, the Dragon, the Serpent); for the devil sinneth from the “BEGINNING” from Strong’s Greek Concordance, “beginning”= #746 “First Estate”also see #7 5 6 = precedence. Compare: Jude 6, “First Estate” forsaken by the angels (under satan the devil’s influence). For this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil.

When one considers the statement in Romans 5:12: By one man sin entered the world. It must be determined as to the meaning of “man”. When used in the english language. Man can represent both genders of male or female, such as mankind. This is a language fact and if that was not true the women would be left out of most benefits of the Word of God in the Bible. When someone says: well it is obvious this scripture is talking about “Adam”. However, the word “adam” means “man”. And the word “adam” personified to mean a particular person means at least three persons: ADAM the son of God, Luke 3:38 KJV, Eve, - ADAM Genesis 5:2 KJV, for Eve’s name was also ADAM…And the other ADAM was Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV. This is especially interesting since in…1 Timothy 2:14 this scripture says that Adam was not deceived and did not commit transgression.

So then why did Adam, the son of God, choose to take on himself the sins of the failed messenger angels, the Ophannim Wheels, who existed before the foundation of the Earth, (Job 38:1-7,21KJV), and as well the transgression of Eve Adam his wife? First he took on the sins of the fallen angels to manifest in the flesh the extent of sin they committed and to manifest it as such. See Romans 7:13 KJV, because Adam Loved Eve and had become one flesh with her, making him Eve’s kinsman redeemer. The Bible repeats the question…Who are the mortals (what is man) that You God are so mindful of them?

Romans 5:12 continues: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world AND DEATH BY SIN. The history of ancient bones prove that on Earth death was a common state before Adam and Eve were even created and therefore their actions had nothing to do with the cause of death as exceptional to the expectation of death for many reasons. If Adam and Eve already had eternal life but lost it due to sin, that flies crooked in the face of “The Tree of Life” which if eaten would allow continous life, but which Adam and Eve never partook of.

And so death passed upon all mortals, because all mortals as failed angels had sinned (have/had past tense) before coming to Earth. MIV THE EMPIRE OF ROME WAS A THOUSAND YEARS, THE BOOK OF ROMANS FOREVER…..

Stop preaching to God about what Am is to do for you, seek that space between transmitting and receiving which is meditation. Go there and wait, for there is coming a sound as of a great Inner Rain. When this Inner Rain is flowing you will be able to change every mental base element into spiritual gold. This is a Word from God that one day all things will become possible for you. When this happens a Holy Ghost telescope will be mounted in your brain so you can see beyond the beyond. Come touch this compass for it is a compass of a “to be” sweeping spiritual Manifest movement. For then shall God sweeten the juices of your spirit and flower the exercises of your altitude.

Regards,

Staff



Bwahaha.

I can totally see Tom Bionic saying they're on drugs. I'm not sure they're on drugs though, I think they're smoking plastic shavings and lead paint. Sadly this will probably be a popular teaching as lots of people love angels... they seem so good right? Well we AREN'T angels, and not all angels are good. The ones that are good also rebuke anyone who is foolish enough to try and worship them.
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Chris

This hunger taking over my life
This thirst for heavenly ways
These eyes are filled with visions
This heart your dwelling place
Come reign here Holy Spirit
Bring forth a storm of change
Set our tongues ablaze with fire
Bring down Your heavenly glory
Glory
LogosApologia
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 05:29:42 PM »

I just did a new post on his Romans 5 explanation,  especially in light of the language used:

“NOW COMES THE BOOK OF ROMANS MANIFEST ALIVE BY THE INTERPRETATION OF A MANIFESTER”

Manifester is pretty much the same as channeler....

http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=575

I appreciate your support!
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Hi, I'm Dave
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 09:18:40 AM »

I couldn't even read all that whacky angel crud (I didn't know one could write a doctoral thesis titled "How Insane Am I?").

These cults seem to be popping up everywhere. Thanks for the heads up!
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Pro 10:12  Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
Psalms 139:23-24 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
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